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tv   Nancy Grace  HLN  July 21, 2009 1:00am-1:51am EDT

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>> the attorney general's office who may have been involved in getting prescription drugs for michael jackson. >> a source involved with the investigation told us numerous bottles of prescription medication had been found in jackson's $100,000 a month rented mansion. >> they're running through their state database that tracks prescription drugs. the names of several of michael jackson's doctors as well as those aliases that michael jackson used and what they're trying to do is track who wrote him what prescription, how much, and when, and over what period of time. >> there are reports that police found diprivan, a powerful anesthetic, in michael jackson's house. >> the source told us that jackson had "numerous track marks" on his arms and those regular i.v. use of a drug like diprivan." >> brand name is diprivan. both interchangeable. same drug. supplied in vials like this.
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>> diprivan is not something that should ever be prescribed. >> if the powerful anesthetic was the cause of dead, anyone who issued that anesthetic to michael jackson and was not physically there to administer it committed gross negligence and should be held accountable. >> the problem is, propofol is not on that database because it's not a controlled substance. >> do you believe in conspiracy? >> it's murder. i think someone did it. that's my opinion. >> family members now publicly saying he's a doctor. he's a live-in doctor. why is michael jackson dead? everybody, you are seeing michael jackson's sister la toya giving her opinion to tmz cameras that someone murdered her brother. out to mike walker, senior editor with the "national enquirer." mike, explain to me what the family -- what the charges are they are leveling against this private, live-in doctor? >> they are saying that they suspect foul play. that this was murder.
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for whatever motive, who knows. it could be insurance. it could be a myriad of things. it could be just plain incompetence. if this doctor, dr. murray, was not a trained anesthesiologist, he's not allowed to use diprivan in a home setting like that. even if he were, he would have to have the devices that you need to keep somebody breathing. this is a drug that's only to be used in an operating room. if propofol was used here, when the toxicology reports show that that caused the death, if it does, you're going to hear a cry of murder go up. at the very least it will be a manslaughter charge in my opinion. >> so, while all of these doctors are scurrying around l.a. saying they are not being probed, there are literally dozens of doctors being probed in a potential homicide case. this, as we learn that jackson's body is allegedly being kept in a freezer as they demand a portion of his brain be returned to the body before burial.
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what do you know, mary margaret, senior news editor at radaronline? >> the family in terms of the doctors, dr. murray who is sort of the lead antagonist in this story line. he said that he has not been dodging the lapd as reported and reports have been surfacing over the weekend. that he's been working with investigators 100% complying and so far he's saying that this pretty much is a character attack on him. >> out to the lines, bernadine in illinois. hi, bernadine. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> what's your question, dear? >> caller: i was wanting to know, how can they possibly say this is not a murder? this dr. conrad murray for one thing if he was a doctor, how could he give this man diprivan? >> exactly. let's go out to dr. michael bell, palm beach county chief medical examiner. dr. bell, obviously this is an
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overnight dosage of diprivan. explain how you can prove a shot of diprivan caused cardiac arrest, dr. bell? >> well, the short answer is you have to rule out any other causes of death besides the diprivan. that would include subtle heart or brain abnormalities and other drug overdoses. >> you're telling me, it's a process of elimination? >> yes. ♪ because this is thriller ♪ thriller night and no one ♪ is going to save you from the ♪ ♪ beast about to strike ♪ you know it is thriller ♪ thriller night ♪ you are fighting for your life inside of thriller ♪
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a source close to the investigation saying murder charges are not likely. we're wondering how is that if a doctor irresponsibly gave michael jackson diprivan and that's the primary cause of
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death, how is that not murder? >> a senior law enforcement official tells the "l.a. times" there's nothing to suggest it so unsupported by the facts so far. >> the coroner has to rule this a homicide which means it wasn't an accidental death. if it is ruled a homicide, there are a number of charges that the d.a. can proceed with, among them illegally prescribing drugs, prescribing drugs under a number of aliases. >> for prosecutors to go after first-degree murder they have to prove that someone intended to kill michael jackson. then you look at second degree which is basically a woeful disregard for human life. then you look at the involuntary manslaughter and that may be the best way to go if in fact they're going to prosecute anyone. >> michael jackson had a very good relationship with all of his doctors. michael jackson was controlling everything. remember, he put a physician on his payroll for this concert. evidently, he was the one who was telling him what he needed. >> we are taking your calls live. back to mike walker, senior editor of "the national
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enquirer." why don't they bury him? it's been 25 days. i don't know where the body is except that it's on ice somewhere. >> it's on ice. if this was your child, would you not at this point say bury him? we're waiting for this little piece of brain which by now is as hard as a brick. they slice little slices off it to show under a microscope. what they're doing is they're building the mystery and mystique. that's you why hear all of this murder and foul play from joe. he wants to keep this exciting. he wants it to be a mystery. why are these boys, his brothers, going down to do a concert with michael not even in the ground yet. there is barbaric. this is disgusting behavior. fans should rise up against this. >> what concert? i understand that there's a ghoulish plan to resurrect the jackson 5. >> i am breaking in my column tomorrow what i call the zombie zone.
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this is joe jackson -- we already heard him suggest the jackson 3. right? prince michael and blanket and the daughter. >> paris. >> paris. unbelievable. this is even more unbelievable. he's going to put the boys out there, the other brothers in the jackson 5 out there doing shows, nancy, with michael or michael's voice with those unreleased records we heard about that are in the vaults. okay? what he's going to do -- michael may rise up out of the grave when he hears this, he's going to turn his son into a dumb ass oldies act. >> nobody had a bad reaction when natalie cole did it. however -- go ahead. what's the difference? >> a labor of love. that was a labor of love. it was one thing. one song. it meant something ♪ unforgettable, that is what you are ♪
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>> that's right. >> this is not that. this is a whole concert. >> this would be them going on tour and essentially putting him up like a hologram behind them while they dance and sing to his brand new songs that they never even heard of? >> yeah. like the platters when it wasn't one person from the platters left touring the world in obscure places. >> what can you tell me about aeg starting at $50 million for the video of his last rehearsals? >> well, i love aeg. i would like to say that right up front. because boy, these guys are some smart businessmen. they're making money from this -- i have sources inside the music industry and the studio industry telling me about these deals going on. john branca is doing a terrific job selling off all these different rights when the selling's hot. don't get mad at aeg. why shouldn't they sell the rights to these concerts and this video footage and so forth? why not. >> mike walker, you and i rarely disagree but there is something wrong with this steady stream of
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people and entities and corporate giants and everybody taking a little piece of jackson's dead body. some people may say it's good business. to me it's distasteful. there's something wrong with it. i don't like it. maybe i'm wrong. >> aeg is selling video. okay? nothing wrong with selling video. what joe jackson is going to do is take the living brothers and put them out on the stage and i don't know, have a little animatron or something be michael. it will be michael's voice. ghouli ghoulish. ♪ ♪ i want to rock with you ♪ all night ♪ dance you in the sunlight
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i got this chill through my body.
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i said, "michael, if you take that medicine, you might not wake up." >> we're not investigating the doctors. we're investigating mr. michael jackson's death. >> you have doctors who allegedly overprescribed or abused -- >> brian oxman, jackson family confidant, host of "insight" on news radio. i understand while katherine jackson says she's not contesting the will, she is, in fact, planning to contest terms of the will, specifically, who the executors will be. >> when an executor is challenged for things like a conflict of interest or not having the best interests of an estate in their business practices, that's not a challenge of the terms of the will. there's no disputing the executor was named in the will so you're not challenging the will. what you're saying is that in an interim period of time, an executor has developed a conflict of interest. she's being very careful, very cautious, and yes, nancy, this is exactly the way she should do it. >> oxman says she's not contesting the will but
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contesting a term of the will. okay, brian. >> not a term. no. it's not a term of the will. it's saying in the interim period that a conflict has developed and it does not challenge the terms of the will. >> i heard you the first time. i heard you the first time. out to dorian holley, vocal director that worked with jackson for 22 years. saw him the night before that last rehearsal. thank you for being with us, dorian holley. what can you tell me about his demeanor when you last saw him? >> well, nancy, you know the assumption since this tragedy has happened and because of what people have been saying, people believe that michael was ill and that he was weak and that he couldn't go through with the 50 shows. his demeanor couldn't have been more different. he was energetic. he was happy. rehearsals were great. he seemed to be excited about the prospect of doing the tour. as you know the tickets sold in
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record time. there were lots more tickets that could have been sold if they wanted to. the fact is it seemed to me that he was completely ready to do the tour and excited about doing the tour. >> with me dorian holley who saw jackson the last night before his rehearsal. to robin sachs, former l.a. county prosecutor. thanks for being with us. what is your take on what's going on? >> as a former l.a. prosecutor and having friends still in the office and been involved with some of the people who are in the office, it is pretty clear to me that there's a thorough investigation that's going on. all aspects of the investigation are being looked at. both the homicide aspect, the legal prescription drug aspect, they're taking their time, they're going through mountains of evidence on everything and that's where they're at right now waiting for the final confirmation on the autopsy reports. >> robin sax, if they could forward with a homicide charge, what would the theory be? >> i think that they would go
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through -- if they're going to do it, it would be involuntary manslaughter and reckless disregard for human life as a doctor. ♪ i saw you kicking dirt ♪ in my eye
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you haven't taken money from my wife's purse. >> okay, you started -- >> $40 or more than that at a time. >> $354 missing out of my expense account. >> an intense fight right before casey left with caylee in mid june was over money casey had stolen from her own grandparents' from an account dedicated to paying for assisted living expenses. tensions had been building over the theft. >> she said, i told money from you, i've been untrust worthy. >> there were deposit slips that she forged for $4,400.
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>> with her mother's name on it? >> yeah. with our account. >> you also, i have an understanding, that your daughter had taken money from your mother. is that right? >> correct. >> when was that and how much was that? >> i believe there was a $27 or $47 one time and 200 and some dollars one time. >> she took money from your grandmother -- i'm sorry, from your mother, her grandmother, by writing a bad check, is that your understanding? >> correct. >> did casey take money from you by using your credit cards without your permission? >> it's not relevant to this case. i'm not answering the question. >> straight out to jean casarez. legal correspondent "in session."
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jean casarez, the big headline the bad check case is where she, tot mom, allegedly took money from her best friend by using all of her checks. they want a delay. surprise, surprise, surprise. i told you ever since i met you ten years ago that is a defense attorney's best friend delay, delay, delay. no big headline for me there. the big headline for me is the defense fires a torpedo at lady justice demanding that bounty hunter leonard padilla and his employees who got close to tot mom be kept off of the stand. now, i have a problem, jean, when the lawyer doesn't want the jury to hear some testimony. why? >> this has just happened. this is a motion the defense filed with the court. he's telling leonard padilla that they don't want any statement that casey anthony said to leonard padilla about the case to come into her trial, to be told to prosecutors or to be told to the media because they say that leonard padilla
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was an agent of the defense when he was providing security to casey anthony last year and because of that, he's therefore subject to the attorney/client privilege. >> out to leonard padilla joining us from sacramento, california. he is joining us via skype. leonard, long time no see. >> good to be back. >> did you think you would be in the middle of a legal fight where you have a whole fleet of defense attorneys trying their best to keep you muzzled. what do you know they don't want a jury to hear, padilla? >> i believe that the situation that jose baez and his team don't want in front of the jury would be the testimony forthcoming from us which would be 180 degrees out of focus from what they have from law enforcement as far as what she told law enforcement. you know as well as i do when you're in front of a jury and there's two stories told, the jury generally picks one or the
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other. here they would have a choice of whether she gave the child up to a babysitter at sawgrass, or did she have the baby taken from her at the jay blanchard park, through force, and given a list of 30 instructions to give to law enforcement, which is nothing more than lies. and the jury would obviously sit back and say, hold on, this is ridiculous. and choose both stories as being untrue. that's why they want to keep it out. >> leonard padilla, you think -- what this signifies to me is they'll stick with the nanny took the baby. you can't tell a jury she took her to sawgrass apartments when i dropped the baby off for her typical nanny day care, as opposed to, she took the baby from my arms at a public park in broad daylight. you can't have your cake and eat it, too. your testimony and your people's testimony would totally destroy that. >> absolutely. if you someday down the road i
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don't know about what tracy will testify to or what her testimony will be -- >> that's your former employee? >> there's dick and my nephew -- but it is all of these people that baez is afraid of. >> how did they get close to tot mom to hear all this? >> well, basically, when i took on the deal that i was going to put up the $50,000, my nephew was going to put up the $500,000 bond. the agreement, even before we went to florida, with jose baez over several conversations that i had with him was, hey, we want to be in the room with this young lady constantly. we don't want to do it to be eavesdropping on her. but we certainly don't want her to be able to flee. the ankle monitoring system that a lot of people use, which was used on her, isn't 100% foolproof. i didn't want to put my nephew at risk for $500,000. there was a lot of contingencies agreed to by jose.
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we also agreed that we would not be making any money off of any book or movie rights, and we also agreed that we wouldn't interfere with any of her constitutional rights. that's part of the agreement. >> liz, you can quit showing that classy shot. of tot mom urinating in a parking lot. i believe we've all seen that enough. but thanks for the refresher. leonard, who paid you? did anybody pay you for the security? >> no. fact is rob dick told me, miguel and kevin went as volunteers. >> that was a yes/no. >> when i offered to pay them, they said no. >> that was a yes/no answer. did you get paid? who paid you? >> nobody paid me. nobody paid me. and i did not pay -- >> let's unleash the lawyers. joining me tonight, veteran former prosecutor robin sax out of the l.a. jurisdiction. randy kessler, defense attorney out of atlanta. and former federal prosecutor now defense attorney out of new york, doug burns.
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robin sax, the defense didn't pay him. why are they suggesting that he worked for them and is therefore bound by attorney/client privilege? >> jose baez isn't going to stop at anything. any sort of way that he can hassle the prosecution with every motion possible is considered a win for him. if he can keep leonard off of the air, it will be better for him later on. i think this is a frivolous waste of time. i don't think that the attorney/client privilege will hold where there's no attorney/client relationship. >> you know, doug burns, another thing i think baez doesn't want this jury to hear about is not just what she said, but how she said it. her demeanor in the days and hours after she's sprung out of jail for the first time, while caylee's allegedly still missing. what about that? >> absolutely right. statements and conduct. the minute leonard padilla got involved in this case, i said 20 red flags of attorney/client privilege went off in my head. i knew it wasn't going to be
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privilege. back to robin, he'll lose that motion and he'll testify. >> doug, if you claimed red flags of alarm were waving in the back of your mind, did you think that there was at any point a privilege? i'm talking everybody about husband/wife, priest/parishioner, attorney/client privilege where that attorney can't get on the stand and blurt out what you have told him or her. same thing applies to people that work for the lawyer. so if you were concerned, do you think that there's an argument -- do you think he has a leg to stand on to keep padilla off the stand? >> they signed a confidentiality agreement, but most of those have a specific confidentiality clause that says law enforcement subpoenas are an exception. i think they're going to lose. >> randy kessler? >> he has to make a record. because you know what? the prosecution has something to lose. if they file an appeal because this privilege was invaded, that's a risk. the prosecution may forego the testimony from padilla to make it a cleaner trial. >> very quickly back to leonard padilla staying with us to
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answer your questions. leonard, what was her demeanor during those hours and days when you first and your people were first around her? >> let me tell you something that i suggested to jose baez in the first five minutes i met him. i said, jose, pay us a buck if you want the privilege to stick. otherwise there's no privilege. he says, no, i'm not interested in that at all. the demeanor is one of a compulsive liar. constantly lying. >> right now, tot mom still behind bars as she awaits trial. we're taking your calls live. quickly with nearly 100 reported drownings involved children under 5 years old, here are safety pool tips for your young swimmers. they must always be supervised by an adult. make sure they don't play with or near drain covers. install barriers around your pool like sensors and alarms. secure a cover over the pool when you're not using it. learn cpr. i had to when the twins were born.
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keep rescue equipment next to the pool. for more information, go to
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the state attorney's office issued formal charges against tot mom casey anthony for allegedly forging checks belonging to a friend. >> this may be a tough thing to answer. >> go ahead. >> did you borrow something from anyone or remove it without their permission that caylee might be being held for? >> no. >> these checks came from her friend's car. amy went on vacation to puerto rico allowing casey to use the car, and she allegedly took checks and is passing this bad paper. apparently she's passed some additional bad checks to area businesses. >> i know that's a tough question, sweetie. i just need to ask you. >> it's not a tough question, dad. mom knows the stuff that i had taken from her. we discussed that, you know, on numerous occasions and with amy.
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you know, i feel guilty about that. i feel extremely guilty, but i was under a time of desperation. >> channel 9 learned that an intense fight right before casey left with caylee in mid-june was over money that casey had stolen from her own grandparents from an account dedicated to paying for assisted living expenses. tensions had been building over the theft. >> what did the person do that you need arrested? >> my daughter. >> for what? >> for stealing an auto and stealing money. >> and we learned today the defense wants the bad check charges trial delayed. that's not a surprise. drew petrimoulx with kdbo is joining us from orlando. what is their excuse for a delay in the check trial? >> they say they need to have time to study for the murder case. that it takes a lot of resources, a lot of time, a lot of money. and if they're forced to focus their attention on a fraud case now, that will take away from casey's right to a fair trial in her murder case.
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>> that's bs. robin sax, we know they are getting a further notice or continuance in the murder case. we already know that. in a death penalty case will linger for years before it goes to trial sometimes. they'll give them all of the time in the world they want to get ready on the dp case. do they need more time on a bad check case? for pete's sake. a bad check case may take three days once you strike a jury. maybe to try. >> that's true. a check case will take no time at all. the delay and the need to study up for the death penalty case and murder case is really just an excuse. however, the real question and the real point that's going to resonate with the judge is the economic resources and the economic condition of bringing in a full set of jurors, having to call witnesses in a case where if she gets the death penalty, who cares about the punishment on the check case. >> the kicker, to you doug
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burns, if a death penalty trial goes to dp phase, if they get a guilty verdict on murder one, then you go to sentencing phase. it's a bifurcated trial where you try guilt/innocence, then you try the sentence. if she's already got a felony conviction for writing bad checks on a friend's checking account, that may come in in aggravation at death penalty phase. >> that's a good point. another point that's kind of interesting is if she gets convicted on the check case, then theoretically if she went to testify in the dp case they could cross examine her -- >> exactly. he brings up a good point, randy kessler. without a bad check conviction you can put up the preacher and next door neighbor and you name it and say does she have a good reputation? and they could all say yes, she was a wonderful girl. if she's got a bad check felony conviction, uh-uh. ix-nay on all of the reputation witnesses.
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>> well, that is the only reason they want to try it. they want to impeach her credibility. >> wait a minute, kessler. they want to try the case because they think she did it. it's on video. so don't give the prosecution like they're darth vader. the reality is she's charged with it because she possibly did it. >> right, but nancy, if they want punishment, i mean, you know what, if she's got the death penalty, she'll be punished also for writing bad checks. they are doing it because it will help the death penalty case, in my opinion. >> we'll see about that. i want to go to natisha lance, our producer on the story. isn't it true that the defense lawyer actually went and paid back the bad checks? isn't that kind of an admission that they did it? >> right, nancy. this is also one of the reasons why he's saying that this trial should be put on hold because these debts have been satisfied. he paid $664 back to bank of america for amy's account. >> out to the lines. antoinette in missouri, hi, dear. >> caller: hi, how are you today? >> i'm good. what's your question? >> caller: real quick, i love
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your show. >> thank you. >> caller: my question is concerning the parents. have they called the parents to the stand? will they have to be questioned and will they question them very vigorously in regards to what they know about this entire case? i just feel like they're holding back on something. >> antoinette, you and me both. they have been holding back to protect their daughter. the answer is yes, yes, and yes. they can be called to the stand. they will be called to the stand. they will be questioned vigorously. there is no mother/daughter, father/daughter privilege. what you blab to your parents, what they observe is fair game. to sheeba in illinois. >> caller: we love you, too, here in our home. >> thank you. >> caller: my question is do you think in the middle of her murder trial when it becomes real that she could become -- get the death penalty if she'll finally say i did it? yes, i did.
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>> to dr. janet taylor, a psychiatrist and md as well. sheba in illinois is bringing up the point, once this becomes really real to her, it's not a game anymore, do you think she'll break down and confess to avoid the death penalty? >> i really don't think so. i think what's been real to her is her ability to steal from her parents, steal from her grandmother, have no remorse and in her mind she believes that she's telling herself the truth. i don't think anything will break her down. >> to bill majeski, former nypd detective, president of majeski associates, inc. welcome back, bill. bill, what do you make of the motion by the defense to keep the bounty hunter off of the stand? >> well, they want to keep as much information away from them as they possibly can. i think that what he can do is he can create an image in the jury's mind of the type of person that she really is in terms of the way she behaved when she was released, her
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attitude toward things and i think it would be very detrimental to her defense if he were allowed to do that, so they will try very hard to keep her off of the stand, but i don't think he will. he will be there and testifying to the truth of the way she behaved which was reprehensible when she was released and it is going to work against her and they will ultimately get what they are looking for. >> to leonard padilla, the man that the defense is trying the best to keep off of the stand. i want to go back in time with you. they are trying so hard to keep the jury from hear whg you observe and your people observed from the time you were in the home, what did you observe about tot mom and her family? >> you could immediately tell within two hours after the release la the pareease that th very protective of anything that could come as a result of our contact with her. although, they did not negate the contact with her. it was a type of situation where
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they didn't want us around her, and which jose said, hey, i don't want her talking to anybody, even her parents. that is not a problem. >> were they involved in trying to find caylee? what was their attitude? >> no, never. never, not the father, not the mother, not lee, not the tot mom.
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i know she's been taking money from my granddaughter's bank, because i'm always dropping five bucks, quarters, and one day you go in there and that's a bank's heavy and you know you put money in there, and there's nothing. >> out to lines, vicki in florida, hi, vicki. >> caller: hi, nancy. i absolutely love you. and your twins are beautiful. >> i'm blessed. i am blessed. and you know, they're coming up on 2 years old, i can't believe it. >> caller: i know. you're an inspiration to me. i watch you every night. i have been dying to ask this question for months. with the evidence of decomposition in the car and the nanny story, which i think is a bunch of b.s., how and why are they not explaining how that baby got in the trunk of that car? >> excellent question. it's because they don't want to
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touch that one with a ten-foot pole. jean casarez joining us from "in session," everyone talks about what happened in the trunk. did she have tape over her mouth, was she gagged? was she purposely killed, but how about why she was in the trunk to start with? >> we haven't seen it, but the defense is going to attack the forensic evidence and say the evidence in the trunk does not show signs of decomposition, that the forensics experts are wrong. >> they're going to have the battle of the experts. drew petrimoulx, what about it, no one's discussed it. vicki points it out. why was the child ever in the trunk to start with? >> they haven't touched on that. but you have to think what their strategy is going to be is to attack the forensics. they've come out calling it bogus science saying the gas samples and particles they took from the trunk don't actually show human decomposition. >> they'll probably argue she was never in that trunk, you're right, drew. everyone, let's stop and remember, marine first
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lieutenant jared landaker, 25, big bear city, california, killed iraq. loved tv shows "rescue me" and "24." loved baseball, football, skiing. defined a hero as anyone who put their life on the line serving this country. leaves find father and mother and a brother. an american hero. thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. i'll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern, and until then, good night, friend. -- captions by vitac -- hello. i'm a.j. hammer in new york. this is a "showbiz tonight" news break. here's some of what we're covering for you on "showbiz tonight" coming up at the top of the hour.
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brand-new startling michael jackson mysteries. why is the official autopsy report been delayed and yet another custody hearing also delayed? so what's the hold-up here? plus, will janet jackson step in to take care of the kids. also, an "american idol" shocker. paula abdul may not be returning to the show. and wait until you hear why. is paula being totally dissed by the producers and will there be life without paula on "american idol"? >> and late-breaking news, chris brown apologizes for beating rihanna and it is all caught on tape. but will rihanna forgive him. and will the public forgive him? i'm playing the entire explosive tape. that's your "showbiz tonight" news break. tv's most provocative entertainment news show starts at the top of the hour.
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